When it becomes very busy I still want to service my clients as best we can and we hate to say no to anyone if we can help it. When a nice young couple comes along and requests to be able to do some of the simpler work themselves we always try to accommodate that as best we can. We do this by agreeing to them doing things like demolition and purchasing their own materials to save money. Of course this is an imperfect system at best (which is why most contractors won't do its and it looks like we will stop now as well. One bad apple spoils it for everyone I'm afraid) but we have always endeavored to try. As the story unfolds from the following emails I will comment in between entries when clarity is needed and after *** preceding the comment. Chronological order for Jameson requests: Estimate on June 26, 2014 Sent estimate via email June 29, 2014 June 30, 2014……………………… ***. This was a detailed written estimate which is the only way we quote anything. In these estimates I include everything that I discussed with the client and explain to them in the cover letter that it's a 'Chinese menu'. Select what you want done and we will re-write the estimate when you settle on a scope.*** His reply to my estimate: Thank you, Jeff. I'm going to start with the demo and the dehumidifier this evening. As I get things opened up, I'll get some pictures and see what your schedule is like. Thanks again! - Brian July 2, 2014……………………. Hello Jeff, See attached pictures for the 2 walls I opened up. It looks like there are some moisture lines visible on the outside wall. Also I noticed last night after the downstairs shower was used, there was some moisture under the shower. Not puddles, but definite moisture. By the way, I threw out the Styrofoam that was behind the drywall. It had mold on it as well so didn't want to chance it. I have a dehumidifier going and the room is currently at 45% humidity according to the gauge. A few questions: 1. Do you also need me to open up the wall adjacent to the entry door? 2. Will you need to come and reassess your estimate now that things are opened up? 3. For the final repair, if we are going to try and replace the wainscoting, can that be applied directly to the wall without drywall to save on cost? I ask because my sister-in-law had a similar project in her house and the contractor did that to save on cost. I defer to your professional opinion, but wanted to ask. Thanks! July 2, 2014……………..Jeff responded to email and answered his questions below: Hello Jeff, See attached pictures for the 2 walls I opened up. It looks like there are some moisture lines visible on the outside wall. Also I noticed last night after the downstairs shower was used, there was some moisture under the shower. Not puddles, but definite moisture. By the way, I threw out the Styrofoam that was behind the drywall. It had mold on it as well so didn't want to chance it. I have a dehumidifier going and the room is currently at 45% humidity according to the gauge. A few questions: 1. Do you also need me to open up the wall adjacent to the entry door? ***Wouldn't hurt, you're already there. 2. Will you need to come and reassess your estimate now that things are opened up? ***It's estimated in linear or square feet, I'll just add it up with more feet. 3. For the final repair, if we are going to try and replace the wainscoting, can that be applied directly to the wall without drywall to save on cost? I ask because my sister-in-law had a similar project in her house and the contractor did that to save on cost. I defer to your professional opinion, but wanted to ask. ***It can be applied that way. In fact perhaps better if you use sheet wainscot and not plank wainscot. It's also available in PVC so you won't need to replace it if it leaks again. It is more expensive. July 2, 2014…………………… Jeff, When I mentioned about reassessing the cost, I thought maybe you would need to take a closer look at the moisture by the shower to see if it is a quick fix or something more involved. The room is still drying out and I know you are booked up for the next few weeks, so I'm not looking for anything immediate. Please refresh my memory, what exactly will be done to prevent water seeping in from the outside? I know you mentioned the concrete foundation caulk but wasn't sure if something more needed to be done? Some type of water-proofing treatment for the concrete? I think the sheet wainscoting (non-PVC) would work providing you can find a close match for the existing and also the water management issues above are addressed. How will that affect final cost? I'm assuming a decrease from eliminating drywall but an increase for the wainscot. I'm not sure how that affects your final balance. Thanks again for your time! July 2, 2014…………… From Jeff: I'm thinking that the water issue would be rectified by moving the leader to the other side and caulking the concrete. I say we do that and see if it works. I'm gone for the weekend so I'll be in touch next week. Happy 4th July 2, 2014………………………… Ok, Jeff. Sounds good. Happy 4th! ***During this time a phone conversation ensued where I explained I would look at this when I came to do the job. I can afford to give each client ONE free estimate. I cannot keep going back time after time, especially if I am allowing them to do the demo and other work to save money. It always becomes a 'free advice' situation and we usually come out on the losing side of the equation, as happened here... July 14, 2014…………….. Hello Jeff, I was curious what your upcoming schedule is looking like so we can get a date on the books. By the way, I removed the molding on the other adjacent wall but it did not appear to be damaged so I did not demo it. I'll let you be the judge when you see it. Thanks, Brian July 15, 2014…………… Hi Brian, I will go over the schedule with Jeff and get back to you asap with a tentative time frame. Regards, Terri July 16, 2014…………. Hi Brian, I will go ahead and order the fan and other materials and get in touch with our gutter guy to see what his availability is. At this time, we kindly ask for 1/3 deposit to cover materials. The remainder is due upon completion of the job. Once I get the tracking number for the fan and expected delivery date, I'll have a better idea when we can schedule. The gutters might have to be on a different day, depending on the gutter subcontractor's schedule. Jeff mentioned you discussed changing the drywall to azek, so if that is the case, he will update the estimate and send a revised copy. Thank you, Terri Eckes July 16, 2014…………. Hi Terri, The estimate Jeff provided was for all projects but we aren't in a position financially to do those yet. This would just be for the wall repair in our laundry room the the exterior caulking. ***again, it was explained in person, on the phone and I believe in our estimate cover letter that it a 'Chinese menu'. We were curious on what the price difference would be for Waynescoting applied directly to the wall in lieu of drywall. Thanks, Brian July 16, 2014………… Oh ok. Sorry for the confusion. He will let you know the price difference regarding the wainscoting, and we are trying to work out the schedule for the next month. Jeff is a little behind this week due to catching a summer flu. I will let you know the availability for the work. Thanks! Terri July 16, 2014………………………. No problem, Terri. Sorry to hear he is sick! It's fine. I'm not in a rush but my wife is starting to get on me about the state of our laundry room. I'm sure you can understand :) Thanks, Brian We sent a revised estimate on July 17, 2014 July 17, 2014………………… Hi Terri, Sorry to be a pest but that is considerably more than we were budgeting for. When last Jeff and I spoke, I we were going to go with standard Wainscoting (not synthetic) due to the cost. If it is still too much for us right now, we'll just have to go with the drywall and finish the wainscot at a later time. My hope was that doing standard Wainscot (which we know would cost more than drywall) but eliminating the cost of the drywall would end up at a price somewhere close to the original or slightly more. If that is not feasible, we'll just go with the drywall. Sorry for all of the back and forth. Please let us know. Thanks, Brian July 17, 2014……………. Oh, I apologize. I think Jeff may have misunderstood. He can easily correct the estimate and get it back out to you with regular wainscoting. Thank you, Terri July 22, 2014……………… Hi Brian, Jeff changed the estimate to reflect the price using mdf, not synthetic, wainscoting. However, it still says synthetic (I asked him about it, and he said it was a typo. It should say mdf. He took his ipad with him, so I couldn't edit it). If you have any questions, please let us know. July 22, 2014………. Thank you, Terri. My wife and I will review tonight and get back to you. July 23, 2014…………… Good Morning Terri, I'm afraid we are going to have to decline this quote. I do thoroughly appreciate your communication throughout the past few weeks. This is just a bit too much in our opinion for the work involved. The original quote seemed reasonable ($504 for materials and labor). We looked the prices up and at the high end looks to be only a few hundred in materials. We just can't justify $1000K+ in labor for a relatively small job. I understand you and Jeff need to make a living so we respect that and hope to look you up again in the future should we need a bigger job. Kind Regards, Brian Jameson ***At this point we felt we had done as much and more for this client than anyone would. It seemed we had ended on a calm and mutual note. That's why it was so shocking when we got this review. I really don't know where to begin with this. I feel we were used and abused, pumped for information, again and again, then dumped and lied about on Angie's List, which we take very seriously. Now I will respond to this amazingly disingenuous review, especially in light of these emails posted above: We had some back and forth with varying quotes. Their responsiveness was great until the end. Member Comments: We did not actually bring them in to do the repairs (and in retrospect are extremely thankful for). We had a laundry room with some water damage and some mold growth. We performed the demo ourselves and removed the affected areas. ***After hours of consultation and advice from me, yes they did their own demolition. Initially, we found the quote to be extremely fair and were about to sign with them($504) for drywall repair. However, we raised our concerns about where the moisture was initially coming from and what would be done to prevent it going forward. This was the response per an email, "I'm thinking that the water issue would be rectified by moving the leader to the other side and caulking the concrete. I say we do that and see if it works." ***This is disingenuous to the extreme. We had a phone conversation in which I explained that I would investigate this thoroughly when we came for the repairs. I could not diagnose this over the phone, nor could I invest more time in a client that still hadn't given us a deposit check, but insisted on continued 'help' over the phone and email.*** Despite this going against our gut concern, we were going to go with them because they came so highly rated on Angie's List. We inquired what the price would be if instead of drywall, we used Wainscoting in lieu of drywall since this was just a laundry area and the affected areas were not highly visible. We have Wainscoting in the rest of the room so wanted it to match up as best as possible. The estimate jumped to $2500 (this was for PVC Wainscoting). Then, it went down to $1400 for MDF wainscoting (still $900 over the original cost). We priced out the materials at Lowes and it was only $200-$300 at best more in materials (and this was pricing the PVC wainscoting that matched our existing pattern). ***this was another disingenuous statement and completely distorted. On the phone I explained that 1/4" thick "standard wainscoting" could not be applied without Sheetrock behind it to mount it to. What was needed was 1/2" MDF or PVC wainscoting, which is much more costly. I explained this in detail to them more than once.**** We just could not justify this extreme jump in price. Once we told them we were declining the quote due to this extreme price jump, no effort was made to correspond with us further (even to say, "Ok. We hope to work with you in the future." or "Here is why there is an extreme difference in price.") ***When a client sends us an email to decline a quote we assume they want to do just that, decline the quote. As a policy we do not continue to correspond with them, what's the point? To this day I'm somewhat baffled by this statement, what did they want, a better price? We don't 'bargain' and besides, it seems an odd way to do that. We simply assumed that they decided to do this themselves after all the free advice I gave them. No harm, no foul. I wished them the best and assumed they would call us again for the really tough stuff, as so many of our clients do year in, year out.*** Going back to the first line of this review, we are extremely grateful we did not use them. While preparing the area for repairs, we noticed our downstairs shower (the other side of one of the walls to be repaired) had a leak in the drain and this was the source of the water damage. This is exactly why we tried to be insistent about finding the source of the problem and fixing it before doing anything else. Had we actually gone with Local Dad for these repairs, the problem would have been sealed up in the wall, we would have wasted our money with them, and still we would have had to deal with the same problem down the road. ***Again, we had a discussion on the phone about this and they were told that we would take a close look at this when we came to do the work. It's silly to assume that we would have "closed this up" in the wall! It's impossible to diagnose this kind of over the phone or via email and we plainly stated we would not come again until we performed the work for them. This is one of the things that upset me the most and one reason I took so long to respond to this review, it's a distortion at best and a plain lie at worst. Keep,in mind we expended all this time and energy and never received a commitment for the project or a deposit.... We actually really hate to leave this review, especially since Local Dad came so highly rated on Angie's List. But we just try to be honest (both the good and bad). Given that our concerns about fixing the source of the problem would have been completely over-looked despite specifically bringing this up makes us extremely hesitant to trust their professional opinion. *** It seems that the adage "no good deed goes unpunished" has some validity in this situation. It's a shame really, it ruins it for the next couple that comes along that may not act like this. I simply cannot take the risk of this kind of thing happening again, so we will discontinue doing this favor for folks. We are highly rated because we do what we do very well and very conscientiously. We feel,that because we didn't "drop our drawers" on the price we were falsely accused of all manner of exaggeration sand distortions which we had no idea was coming (read the emails again, would you expect this kind of review after those emails?) In the end our communications and emails stand on their own. All we can do is let the consumer decide what happened by the documented facts provided above in the clients emails. We dislike the need to make a client look bad in responding to these reviews but our reputation is our stock in trade. I waited quite some time to respond to this review because it upset me quite a bit and I wanted to present the facts in a cooler manner than the one I had when it was written.