Response from Armstrong Plumbing Inc.
Armstrong Plumbing has been in business for 24 years and we can count on one hand how many complaints we’ve had. We our proud to say we have great customer service, quality workmanship and our customers absolutely love us.. When we received this customers complaint and accusations we as a company were quite taken back and shocked. You see Ms. X thanked us and told us she was so happy she hired us and even ran by our credentials, pricing and workmanship with her brother who is a plumber that lives out of town. Ms. X told us her brother told her to go with Armstrong Plumbing and that the price seemed reasonable fo that type of work. She was so happy with our plumbers, she complimented them everyday and marveled at how professional they were and how they all got along and worked so well together. She spoke with the office manager every day and complimented the crew as to what a great job they were doing. When the project was completed she called the office for three days in a row and complimented our plumbers and again as to what a great job they did. She called our foreman several times and told him what an outstanding job we did. This is why as a company we were shocked. Regarding her first sentence, no one “demanded” anything from Ms X. When we bid a job, we write up a service ticket with a diagnosis and cost to repair the plumbing. The customer then reviews it and makes a decision of yes or no if we are to do the work. In Ms X situation, after assessing the problem of rain water backing up into her basement, we recommended to cable and camera. The cost for the camera, cable and our optional service agreement was $629. After discussing with her brother who was a plumber, she said to do the work. We were paid nothing up front and I can prove it by the first check she wrote to us for $939.00. On the bottom of the check Ms X wrote Contract 1 and 1/3 of Contract 2. She paid for the first service ticket when we completed the job and paid 1/3 down which is standard for additional work when there is a larger job to do. The camera would not go past 8’ indicating a problem with the pipe under the basement floor. We discussed the problem with Ms X and recommended removing a portion of the floor in order to gain access to the drain pipe so we could continue running the camera. This would further determine the condition of the piping under the floor. She agreed it needed to be done in order to make an assessment and the service ticket read “Break approximately 18”x 3’, cut cast iron pipe, re camera and inspect condition of 4” cast iron , replace concrete, remove extra dirt (drain under floor may need to be replaced, if so additional pricing will be necessary)”. Before we started she authorized us to do the work. If she had a problem with the cost she should have gotten more bids. Everything was covered back up and she could have easily done this. When we removed the first section of piping it was evident that the cast iron piping under the floor had rusted and deteriorated to a point that all the piping under the floor had rusted and deteriorated. After discovering this we wrote up a service ticket that read “Break up 40 foot of basement floor, replace 40 foot of basement building drain cast iron with PVC backfill and replace the concrete. Permits, inspections, and camera. She wanted in writing that she would be able to “FLUSH “ by Friday. The estimate was $6926.00. It was 6-12-12, a Tuesday. We had four days to get this job completed. Ms. X mentioned five days but it was only four. Her checks prove that. Again, she had every opportunity to check other prices but she decided to hire us to do the work. We brought in extra guys and put a crew together coming in early and staying late to assure we would have her job finished by her deadline. Ms X mentions several times regarding how long it took and how many guys we had. We don’t charge hourly. She had a turn key price so we are confused as to why she was concerned with why we had so many guys. We as a company knew we needed to be done by Friday and because we please our customers and give good service we weren’t going to take any chances and not be finished. It was that important to her and we honored her request. From Tuesday when we stated until Friday when we finished we received three checks. This is not uncommon for a job this big to be paid as you go. We were paid $939, $4068. and a final payment after the job was completed of $3463. When we agreed we were going to do the big job, we asked for a down payment so we could get the material and start. Ms. X wanted for us to wait until she received a check from the insurance man. I told her that it was company policy that we do not work with insurance companies. I told her a story of how a few years ago a customer told us we would receive our payment from the insurance company the day after we finished the job. We frowned on that but we had faith in her and agreed. Our plumbers worked all day putting in her copper pipes and then when the insurance company paid her she kept the money and we never received a dime. Ms. X kept asking over and over why we couldn’t wait until the insurance man paid her the next day. And I told her that that is what the other woman had said to us and that because of her, our policy had to change. It is unfortunate for the good honest people out there but we are a small organization. We are the small man out there, not a large company like Ms X implies. We try to bid our jobs as tight as possible and we certainly can’t afford to take another hit like that and stay in business. For this reason and because of this customer costing Armstrong Plumbing thousands of dollars we are unable to work with insurance companies. It’s unfortunate and we’re sorry that Ms X thought it was degrading but it had nothing to do with her. It’s just our policy and we told her up front. It just saddens me and breaks my heart to think that an inspector can come in a customer’s house and cause her to lose faith in a company she was so thrilled about. The inspector is probably not a licensed plumber, has never owned a plumbing business and doesn’t have a clue as to what it takes or the more than 18 components you have to pay in order to run a business. He’s probably never considered having to pay salaries, insurance, workman’s comp, truck repairs, warehouse fees, material, costly trucks, utilities, office supplies, advertising, plumbing training , plumbers working 5 years as an apprentice taking a huge test, 5 years as a journeyman and taking a huge test, continuing education , PEU credits, uniforms, taxes, truck maintenance, gas etc. All these items are factored into a price when bidding a job. That’s what plumbing company’s have to pay in order to stay in business. Ms. X, as I said before we are a small business and we bid everything as tight as we can. We could not stay in business doing your job for $4000.00. We have not had a price increase since 2007. Your job should’ve taking a lot longer to do for the amount of work we did. We brought in extra guys so we could make your Friday deadline. Ms X your basement was jammed full with stuff and was not cleaned out when you hired us. We moved that out for you for free. It took a lot of our time but we did not complain because we were striving for a good working relationship with you. We thought we had that throughout the whole job and after. You said we didn’t fix the drain. You know we had to order the grid cover and Tim personally drove it out to you a few days later. The $79.00 PCA you purchased gives you a year long of substantial discounts on any plumbing services for a year. We also come out and safety proof your house in that year and do a whole list of things that are located on the back of the agreement. We told you up front that the work we did would only cover the deteriorated rusted basement pipes from inside your house. (Phase 1) Not the pipes going out the front yard to the street like your neighbors all had done. (Phase 2) You called us out for an estimate on (Phase 2) and we gave you an estimate. We don’t know where all this is coming from 3 months later. You have an inspector that has filled you with ideas that has no basis as to the plumbing work we did. He doesn’t have a clue as to what jobs go for. He enforces codes. You agreed to our pricing and recommendations. We never “demanded” money we simply told you our policies. You were very pleased with the professionalism and work ethic we had by calling our office numerous times and calling our employees with gratitude and thanks. I’m sorry you have lost faith in us and you have buyer’s remorse but we feel our pricing was fair and up front. We would be happy to give you a $200.00 credit to be used for future plumbing repairs but that is all we can do. We hope you continue to use Armstrong Plumbing in the future because we truly have a great bunch of plumbers that are honest, loyal and have a plethora of gifts and talents and who are dedicated in doing a superb job of technicality and workmanship. Thank you Angie’s list for the opportunity to respond. Armstrong Plumbing has been in business for 24 years and we can count on one hand how many complaints we’ve had. We our proud to say we have great customer service, quality workmanship and our customers absolutely love us.. When we received this customers complaint and accusations we as a company were quite taken back and shocked. You see Ms. X thanked us and told us she was so happy she hired us and even ran by our credentials, pricing and workmanship with her brother who is a plumber that lives out of town. Ms. X told us her brother told her to go with Armstrong Plumbing and that the price seemed reasonable for that type of work. She was so happy with our plumbers, she complimented them everyday and marveled at how professional they were and how they all got along and worked so well together. She spoke with the office manager every day and complimented the crew as to what a great job they were doing. When the project was completed she called the office for three days in a row and complimented our plumbers and again as to what a great job they did. She called our foreman several times and told him what an outstanding job we did. This is why as a company we were shocked. Regarding her first sentence, no one “demanded” anything from Ms X. When we bid a job, we write up a service ticket with a diagnosis and cost to repair the plumbing. The customer then reviews it and makes a decision of yes or no if we are to do the work. In Ms X situation, after assessing the problem of rain water backing up into her basement, we recommended to cable and camera. The cost for the camera, cable and our optional service agreement was $629. After discussing with her brother who was a plumber, she said to do the work. We were paid nothing up front and I can prove it by the first check she wrote to us for $939.00. On the bottom of the check Ms X wrote Contract 1 and 1/3 of Contract 2. She paid for the first service ticket when we completed the job and paid 1/3 down which is standard for additional work when there is a larger job to do. The camera would not go past 8’ indicating a problem with the pipe under the basement floor. We discussed the problem with Ms X and recommended removing a portion of the floor in order to gain access to the drain pipe so we could continue running the camera. This would further determine the condition of the piping under the floor. She agreed it needed to be done in order to make an assessment and the service ticket read “Break approximately 18”x 3’, cut cast iron pipe, re camera and inspect condition of 4” cast iron , replace concrete, remove extra dirt (drain under floor may need to be replaced, if so additional pricing will be necessary)”. Before we started she authorized us to do the work. If she had a problem with the cost she should have gotten more bids. Everything was covered back up and she could have easily done this. When we removed the first section of piping it was evident that the cast iron piping under the floor had rusted and deteriorated to a point that all the piping under the floor had rusted and deteriorated. After discovering this we wrote up a service ticket that read “Break up 40 foot of basement floor, replace 40 foot of basement building drain cast iron with PVC backfill and replace the concrete. Permits, inspections, and camera. She wanted in writing that she would be able to “FLUSH “ by Friday. The estimate was $6926.00. It was 6-12-12, a Tuesday. We had four days to get this job completed. Ms. X mentioned five days but it was only four. Her checks prove that. Again, she had every opportunity to check other prices but she decided to hire us to do the work. We brought in extra guys and put a crew together coming in early and staying late to assure we would have her job finished by her deadline. Ms X mentions several times regarding how long it took and how many guys we had. We don’t charge hourly. She had a turn key price so we are confused as to why she was concerned with why we had so many guys. We as a company knew we needed to be done by Friday and because we please our customers and give good service we weren’t going to take any chances and not be finished. It was that important to her and we honored her request. From Tuesday when we stated until Friday when we finished we received three checks. This is not uncommon for a job this big to be paid as you go. We were paid $939, $4068. and a final payment after the job was completed of $3463. When we agreed we were going to do the big job, we asked for a down payment so we could get the material and start. Ms. X wanted for us to wait until she received a check from the insurance man. I told her that it was company policy that we do not work with insurance companies. I told her a story of how a few years ago a customer told us we would receive our payment from the insurance company the day after we finished the job. We frowned on that but we had faith in her and agreed. Our plumbers worked all day putting in her copper pipes and then when the insurance company paid her she kept the money and we never received a dime. Ms. X kept asking over and over why we couldn’t wait until the insurance man paid her the next day. And I told her that that is what the other woman had said to us and that because of her, our policy had to change. It is unfortunate for the good honest people out there but we are a small organization. We are the small man out there, not a large company like Ms X implies. We try to bid our jobs as tight as possible and we certainly can’t afford to take another hit like that and stay in business. For this reason and because of this customer costing Armstrong Plumbing thousands of dollars we are unable to work with insurance companies. It’s unfortunate and we’re sorry that Ms X thought it was degrading but it had nothing to do with her. It’s just our policy and we told her up front. It just saddens me and breaks my heart to think that an inspector can come in a customer’s house and cause her to lose faith in a company she was so thrilled about. The inspector is probably not a licensed plumber, has never owned a plumbing business and doesn’t have a clue as to what it takes or the more than 18 components you have to pay in order to run a business. He’s probably never considered having to pay salaries, insurance, workman’s comp, truck repairs, warehouse fees, material, costly trucks, utilities, office supplies, advertising, plumbing training , plumbers working 5 years as an apprentice taking a huge test, 5 years as a journeyman and taking a huge test, continuing education , PEU credits, uniforms, taxes, truck maintenance, gas etc. All these items are factored into a price when bidding a job. That’s what plumbing company’s have to pay in order to stay in business. Ms. X, as I said before we are a small business and we bid everything as tight as we can. We could not stay in business doing your job for $4000.00. We have not had a price increase since 2007. Your job should’ve taking a lot longer to do for the amount of work we did. We brought in extra guys so we could make your Friday deadline. Ms X your basement was jammed full with stuff and was not cleaned out when you hired us. We moved that out for you for free. It took a lot of our time but we did not complain because we were striving for a good working relationship with you. We thought we had that throughout the whole job and after. You said we didn’t fix the drain. You know we had to order the grid cover and Tim personally drove it out to you a few days later. The $79.00 PCA you purchased gives you a year long of substantial discounts on any plumbing services for a year. We also come out and safety proof your house in that year and do a whole list of things that are located on the back of the agreement. We told you up front that the work we did would only cover the deteriorated rusted basement pipes from inside your house. (Phase 1) Not the pipes going out the front yard to the street like your neighbors all had done. (Phase 2) You called us out for an estimate on (Phase 2) and we gave you an estimate. We don’t know where all this is coming from 3 months later. You have an inspector that has filled you with ideas that has no basis as to the plumbing work we did. He doesn’t have a clue as to what jobs go for. He enforces codes. You agreed to our pricing and recommendations. We never “demanded” money we simply told you our policies. You were very pleased with the professionalism and work ethic we had by calling our office numerous times and calling our employees with gratitude and thanks. I’m sorry you have lost faith in us and you have buyer’s remorse but we feel our pricing was fair and up front. We would be happy to give you a $200.00 credit to be used for future plumbing repairs but that is all we can do. We hope you continue to use Armstrong Plumbing in the future because we truly have a great bunch of plumbers that are honest, loyal and have a plethora of gifts and talents and who are dedicated in doing a superb job of technicality and workmanship. Thank you Angie’s list for the opportunity to respond.