Response to (member name removed) Complaint on Angie’s List My name is Janet Fanelli, and I have been the officer manager at Brian’s Plumbing & Sprinklers for 23 years. My husband, Brian, is a Florida, State-Certified Master Plumber with 27 years of experience. We are a small, family-owned and operated company, and we have lived in the area for over 40 years. We have two other licensed plumbers that have been with us for 23 years, and then we have the next generation of plumbers including nephews, cousins, and our children. We offer quality, personalized, residential services at affordable prices. My nephew, Dan, who was the plumber at the job in question, started working for us on weekends, holidays, and summers back in high school. Even when he was in college, he would come home and work during breaks from classes and holidays. He has been hand-trained by Brian for over 12 years, and has been cleaning and repairing sewer lines the entire time, and is great at trouble-shooting and resolving those types of issues, as well as all other types of plumbing repairs. This is the first time since the company opened that we have ever received a complaint from a customer with such accusations. Our customer base is comprised of residential and commercial customers including property managers, landlords, realtors, home-owners, business owners, and renters. Many of our customers have been with us since day 1. We have specific warranties in place, clearly written on our invoices that are discussed with the customers at the time of service. We lower the prices and offer significant discounts to the customers who stay with us because we appreciate them so much. We also offer discounts to our Angie’s List Customers, retirees, snowbirds, other tradesman, and many other organizations. We have lived in the community for so long, and have raised our family here, so to us our customers are like family, and many of them are our neighbors!!. We are very honest and always look for the most economical way to accomplish repairs, especially in recent years with the way the economy has been. We definitely do not try to deceive or cheat our customers, or not do work that was contracted for and charge them anyway!!! I am pretty sure we would have no customers left if that’s how we conducted our business. A little over a month ago, I received a phone call from the customer regarding work that was completed at his rental property back in July 2013, approximately 6 months prior. He explained the problem briefly over the phone, and let me know he would be sending over emails and pictures, and asked me to review all of it and get back to him. I immediately called Brian and pulled out the customer’s file and began taking notes to re-familiarize myself with the job. I spent many hours interviewing both plumbers involved with the job, Brian and Dan, and we all carefully reviewed the emails and pictures the customer sent over. I stayed in contact with the customer by phone and email throughout this process. It became too confusing for me to go back and forth between the plumbers and the customer, so we set up a meeting for Brian and Dan to meet with the customer at the rental property to discuss the job in person. Brian and Dan had completely explained the job to the customer while it was being done in July, but at the meeting, the customer accused us of not doing the job we contracted to do. Brian tried to remind him of what they discussed before, during, and after the job, and Dan did the same, but now there was confusion. I had tried to explain to the customer, that going by the invoices I had in the file, we did exactly what it said we did, and the customer signed them, and was satisfied with the work, because the problem was resolved. Now the customer was saying something else that was NOT on the invoices, and saying the problem was NOT resolved. In order to respond to this complaint, the facts need to be straightened out first. The invoices with everything mentioned will be attached. I have actually re-interviewed both plumbers and both helpers that were involved with the job at great lengths, as well as re-reviewed the documents we have on file, as well as reviewed the customer’s documents. I double-checked the information with the Chief Plumbing Inspector at the City of Tamarac, as well as with personnel in the Tamarac Building Department. I offered the customer a meeting with the plumbing inspector to discuss the particulars of the repair, but he declined. I also did extensive research on line, as a lay person would, or as any customer can, and found specific information and prices that back up what my plumbers are saying exactly. Our conclusion was that we do NOT owe the customer any money back, as the repair was done correctly, and for a fair price. The following paragraphs will describe the details of the repair. I will point out the corrections that need to be made in the customer’s listing of the facts in his written complaint. The customer’s tenant had a stoppage that was causing a problem with multiple fixtures in the home. When the plumber got to the property, and opened the cap on the sewer line clean-out outside the home, the water flowed freely out of it. This immediately told him that the blockage was between the house and the city sewer, as opposed to being in the sewer line under the home. The next step was to try to clear the blockage in that section of the line. The plumber used a Rigid K-60 electronic sewer cleaning machine, with over 140 feet of 7/8” cable. He ran the snake through the line which cleared the blockage. When he pulled out the cables this time, there was evidence of paper and feminine products, which many times is just a coincidental back-up, as opposed to a problem with the sewer line. He did not pull out any tree roots in the cables, which could have indicated a problem with the line. He tested the line, and there was no longer a back-up anywhere in the home, and the line was clear. The customer signed the invoice that clearly states there is no warranty on stoppages, and paid the bill. We offer specific warranties on our work, and when there is a legitimate problem with something completed, we take care of it. Because we can’t see inside sewer lines without a camera, and because they are affected by nature and careless tenants on a regular basis, we do not offer a warranty on stoppages that we clear. We do offer a 30 day parts and labor warranty on sewer line repairs, but only on the section that was replaced, obviously due to the factors mentioned above relating to nature. These are common practices throughout the plumbing community. Unfortunately, one week later, the customer called and said the line backed up again. Dan went back out and used the electric cables again, and cleared the line. Nothing came out with the cables this time, so it is hard to say what caused it to back-up. The customer said we charged him in his complaint, but we did NOT charge the customer this time, even though we do not warranty stoppages, and although backing up again that quickly could be a symptom of line damage, there is really no way to know without viewing the line with a camera. We do not just jump to the conclusion of sewer line damage on the first or second back-up. Most times it is just a coincidence and something got flushed or drained into the line that did not belong there. The customer had already mentioned that he couldn’t afford all the repairs, between his home and the rental property, so we made the decision to do it for free, and not to proceed with viewing the line with a camera at that time. The camera company we use charges $ 425 and provides a DVD of the entire line. They have the best equipment and very experienced technicians, and we have been working with them for over 20 years, so we trust them. We decided to just wait and see what happened after giving it a good cleaning this time, rather than push the customer into incurring further expense at this time. Three weeks later on July 2, the line backed up again. At this point it was clear that there was an underlying issue with the sewer line. Dan went back out to check the situation, and this time it was different. The cables were getting stuck at a section of the line by one of the cleanouts, and rocks and dirt came out in the cables this time. He was able to clear the line, but we were pretty sure it would be only temporary, and explained to the customer that the line had to be repaired. Dan carefully measured where the cables were getting stuck, and it was right by the cleanout, where the 3” part of the line met the 6” part of the line. Since there are fittings involved where the pipe size changes, it was evident that one of the fittings on line broke. Dan explained to the customer that they would have to dig up around the clean-out , between the side-walk and the clean-out to expose the fittings to see what was going on. Dan called Brian to check and see how he wanted to charge him since he was a regular customer, etc. Since the problem was located at the deepest part of the line, over 4 feet deep, it would take at least a day, maybe two days, with Dan and a helper. When Dan discussed the pricing with the customer, the customer said he did not have that much money at that time. Dan prepared an invoice for the discounted price of $ 165 for getting the line cleared this time, but offered to credit him the $ 165 towards the sewer line repair of $ 1,350 if and when he decided to do it. The invoice with the estimate was signed by the customer, and he said he would get back to us about the repair. We did mention that the camera could tell us for sure exactly where the problem was, but we didn’t feel it was necessary to have the customer spend an extra $ 425 when Brian and Dan both seemed sure of what and where the problem was. At some point during the conversation with the customer, Dan had said that if the problem wasn’t where he thought it was, we might have to camera the line, and possibly replace the whole line if the damage was too extensive. Dan never meant that all of that would be done for $ 1350 minus $ 165. Dan had already discussed the various prices with Brian if that were the case. To camera the line would have been $ 425 as mentioned previously, plus the permit fees of around $ 300, and $3,750 to replace the entire sewer line from the house to the City connection with labor and materials, including tunneling under the sidewalk. This is the main part of the confusion with the job. All of this information can be found by simply Googling “sewer line repair and replacement”. We did not lie, cheat or try to mislead the customer in any way. We thought we were being fair. The customer was ready to do the sewer line repair on Saturday, July 13, 2013. The crew went out and dug up the area around the clean-out and sure enough they found the damaged fitting. They took pictures of it, and showed the damaged fitting to the customer. Dan actually gave it to him, but the customer doesn’t know what happened to it now. Brian and his crew were working nearby, so Brian stopped by there a couple times during the day to check on the job, and spoke to the customer directly about the job and what they found. So the problem was right where we thought it was, they fixed it the same day, backfilled it in the rain, in the dark, to get it done and not have to go back on Sunday to finish. The customer was happy that the problem was right where we thought it was and no further investigation was necessary. The customer asked Brian and Dan to follow him to his house to get the payment for the job, and asked them to look at a repair at his home while they were there. So plumbers went, got paid, looked at repair, etc.. Later that night, the customer called Dan to ask if he could get some money back since we the job was finished quicker than we thought? No one can seem to remember the actual wording of the conversation. At that time, we didn’t realize how bad the confusion was. Dan checked with Brian to see if the customer was supposed to get a refund of some kind for something, but didn’t get into much detail because he thought Brian had made some kind of arrangement with him while he was out at the job with him earlier in the day or something. Brian said no that he didn’t think we owed him a refund for anything, and Dan called back the customer with the answer. The only thing we could think of at that time was because we had originally said it would take 1-2 days to do the repair, and we finished in one day, the customer wanted money back? Dan explained it was the right price for the amount of hours worked. Brian responded to Dan that it was a flat rate job price, so whether it took 1 or 2 or 3 days, it would have been the same price. The customer is saying now that he was asking for a refund since they didn’t have to cameral the line or replace the whole sewer line. We had no idea that’s what he meant back then at all. The customer did not call the office for clarification at this point, nor did we know any was needed. About a month later, the customer called and asked us to install a water heater for him at the property. We went out and installed the water heater. The sewer line was still clear, and nothing was mentioned about any problems or the “refund”. If he had felt like we cheated him previously, or had been having more problems with the line, I am pretty sure he would have mentioned it then, or maybe not had even used us again?? A little over 4 months after the sewer line repair was completed, the tenant had another back-up. Dan went out to check it out, but the tenant wasn’t home this time so we had no way to check inside and the switch was off to the outside outlet, so we had no way to use the electric snake machine. Dan put the hose jet down the line and it cleared right up. It seemed like maybe too much paper or feminine products might have gotten stuck again, but without being able to use the snake machine, or get in the house, it was impossible to tell. We only charged $ 75 for the visit and the line was clear when we left. We didn’t hear from the customer again until January 30 when he sent the emails and pictures regarding this complaint. Apparently the line backed up again in January, and he called out a company to camera the line. They found tree roots in the line about 2 feet away from where we did our repair. This is a very common problem since the roots are constantly seeking the water in the line. So the customer and his friend replaced the section of sewer line that the roots were in. He did not hire a company to do the repair for $ 500 like he wrote in the complaint. He told Brian and I that him and his buddy did it and that he had wanted to do the original repair as well, but that he didn’t have the time back then. He wrote in the complaint that they saw cut the sidewalk, yet he showed Brian and Dan when they went out in person that they just lifted the section of sidewalk and then replaced it. I am not sure why he is accusing us of lying, and then lying to you in the complaint. This was 6 months after our original investigation. If he had called us, we would have followed the same procedure as mentioned earlier. It only took a few hours for him and his friend to do the repair, so why is he asking for $ 500 back. It just doesn’t make sense because the 2 repairs added together are still cheaper than replacing the whole line!! The customer was there when we pulled out the cables each time, and no tree roots ever came out. If tree roots were the cause of the original problem, why did the line stay clear for 4 months after our repair?? The tree roots might have caused him to back up this time, after growing into the lines for 6 months, but they were definitely not the culprit originally. I cannot say for sure that if we hired the camera company in the very beginning those roots would have been visible or if they were there at all. No one could answer that for me. So what if we had replaced the whole sewer line, and then roots grew into it later? Would he have still held us responsible? Tree roots could actually infiltrate the line again at some point in the future. The customer is asking for $ 500 back to cover the money he paid the other company, but he did the repair himself. We saved him the money originally on the camera, so he is actually way ahead still. Our repair did in fact solve the problem 6 months ago, and it was done according to what we wrote, and we charged what was written on the original estimate. We extended our apologies that another problem developed, and that it was so close to our original repair, but it was under the sidewalk, and nothing about cutting or tunneling under the sidewalk, was ever discussed at the time of the original repair, and would have cost extra to repair if that was in the findings 6 months ago anyway.